Listen to this Podcast with Raymond Tallis (from Philosophy Bites) and discuss the end of life in the context of self identity.
Due October 25, 2012
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16 comments:
Religious people might describe the body as a vessel for the soul, a container of sorts. Its very difficult to see ourselves as nothing more than a potential rotting piece of flesh. Our personality,spirit,wants,dreams and capabilities,challenges and LOVE individualizes us. In the words of Tallis: here are many other problems with the self being identified either as a stand-alone psyche or a body uninhabited by a psyche. The most profound is that both theories focus on the self as enduring over time: the psychological theory gives the subjective dimension of continuity; and bodily theory gives its outer face. But the notion of personal identity over time must surely be secondary to that of identity at a given time. The psychological stream may be internally stitched by memory but it seems not only ownerless but untethered – disconnected from here and now. It seems ungrounded, without substance. And while the body is obviously substantial, and holds together over time, being relatively stable, considered merely as a living organism it lacks ownership of itself at a particular time. Neither bodiless psychology nor a body without psychology provides any grounding for the sense of identity at a particular time and this must have priority over the sense of identity over time, the sense that one is the same self at successive, or widely separated, moments.
We are healthy,we age,we become sick and then at times look in the mirror to be surprised at the older person we have become. but the "essence of human identity lies in the continuing self-redefinition". And if we remember that “our identity intersection between our impersonal but unique bodies and our personal individual memories and shared cultural awareness, it is difficult to worry about the erosion of either our identity or our freedom” We must come to terms with who we are,where we are going and what is to become of us. Acceptance is the key to MY (Rachel’s) happiness and coming to a place where I can see myself being capable of suicide is not a bad thing to me. It should be a RIGHT!
Well.....I see it as that when a person gets to a certain point in their sickness, and they seriously feel that they can not live with the pain for one more second, as well as the pride inside of refusing to be debilitated in the way that they have become, that the persons ''self identity'' comes in to play! I do believe that there is a HUGE difference between ''suicide'' and ''assisted suicide''
Assisted suicide shouldnt even be a debate if you have a terminal illness and there is no chance of recovery. For society to say it's wrong because suicide assisted or not is wrong is crazy to me. we live in a society where it's ok to turn down someone for medical care if they arent insured. we can sign a Do not recesitate (sp?) and we can even turn down medical help but we cant choose to end our suffering from illness and disease and be assited in dying? they even let people on death row have a peaceful death. if you are terminally ill and are dying a slow painful death and your tired of suffering, you should have the option of going to a doctor to help you end your suffering.
I believe everyone should have the choice of doing what they want with their live. You should have the choice for someone to assist you if you have a terminal sickness. We live in a society were there is freedom of choice, even though most of the time, that is bull.I believe this is such a controversy because of many factors like religion,culture,and beliefs. I agree with Alana in what she says about denying medical insurance and death row. Why is it okay for the government to do what they want and not us? I think we should have right to do as we wish.
I think it is the right of each individual to determine the decision to end their life. When you have a terminal illness, and are going through hell trying to recover such as chemo, trying different pills with severe side effect, including the side effects of the disease itself, and you are informed that you will not live longer than 6 months and there is no cure nor any real hope for you to recover, than i think it is up the person to end their life if they choose. I think that unless you are going through the same exact scenario that they are going through with a terminal illness than you have no place to force your belief. Doctors are there to help us in terms of trying to cure whatever we have but at the end of the day, doctors are really there to assist in the best possible way and if their patient has made the best possible decision for them, and they both are on the same page and have a clear understanding than the doctor has done his/her job.
Growing up I was taught to respect life, no matter what the quality of life is; it is still a life. I was brought up believing and still feel strongly that suicide is morally wrong. I believe that God gave us life, and god is the only one who has the right to take or end that life.
Now as for assisted suicide, not only is it morally wrong to end your own life; it is morally wrong to end or help end someone’s life. According to Raymond Tellis “assisted dyeing is wrong for someone suffering from anorexia because, someone suffering from anorexia can change that situation.” Raymond goes on to say that “assisted suicide is right for someone who is suffering from a terminal illness which the end cannot be altered.” Tellis also said that “he is against assisted dyeing for someone suffering from a depressive condition. So how can it be okay for someone with a terminal illness and not okay for someone suffering from anorexia, when both conditions are tagged with depression? Okay, again according to Raymond it is alright to end your life, when you have a terminal illness which you know you are going to die. Well then if that is the case, we should all do a James town, and commit a mass suicide because we all are going to die that is guaranteed. Life is one big terminal illness which the end results cannot be altered. With this being said I do not agree that assisted suicide should be legalized in this country or in any other country, but that’s just me.
I have read the blogs that have been posted so far and it looks as if everyone so far supports assisted death when it is a terminal illness. I happen to agree with the group. This is a subject that I will have to face sometime in the not so far off future as my disease progresses and my quality of life is drastically impaired. The medication that I take for the disease because of it being painful and debilitating is not the best choice but the only choice as it causes cancer and it is a race on which will kill you first, the disease or the treatment so life is bearable. Because I know I will have to face this decision at some point, I hope that we will become as progressive as other countries and legalize assisted dying. There should be a choice out there for people!
One of the hardest arguments for me to listen to is the one that life is a gift of God and should be cherished. This argument has been used to vilify the practice of assisted dying and has led a number of people to suffer for longer than they would have needed to. This argument is not a valid one as the sanctity of life is a morale ethic that is not universal. Life is precious but it’s okay to take life in certain situations. If the person does not look of talk like you do then it is okay to kill as they are a threat. If someone believes in a different religion than you then it is okay to kill to protect your own faith. If someone is going to harm another then it is okay to kill to protect the sanctity of another’s life. And the exceptions to the rule are as infinite as the situations that arise that require a revision to the rule. Just look at the crusades and the inquisitions.
In the end, is it not more of a blessed thing to stop suffering and pain? Is it not better to show mercy and love? How much of a better world it would be if people came together for one another and stood by those that were suffering and could make a choice and say “We love you, you were valued and even though we do not want you to go, we are with you in love to see you off to whatever awaits you in heaven or the next life. I think that politicians and clergy should take that into their thoughts than trying to come up with excuses for killing others.
what faith we have in ourselves,if we can overcome sickness. Having cancer or any severe sickness, not remembering and not wanting to burden our family will give us suicidal thoughts. Being a independent person, i can understand not wanting to burden family with any kind of issues and do believe in religious faith NOT to request suicide or assisted suicide and being a strong person should be able to get through it.
I think that assisted suicides should be the patients choice the ones who have a terminal illness with no cures. People with terminal sickness only can suffer when they wait for the sickness to take over, they can have the choice to end their life since there isn't much options.
The two questions I asked myself over and over in my head while listening to Mr. Tallis is how can a person who has a life expectancy of 6 months be in a right state of mind ? I imagine if a patient is in “unbearable pain” that they may also be prescribed some type of drug if not many to help make the patient comfortable while dealing with their illness. I can assume that like with any drug, these medications may affect a patient’s mental capacity. Not only is the patient under physical stress from the illness but emotional stress from all the feelings that go along with the diagnosis of a terminal illness. Assistant dying may lead to more difficult situations. For example a patient who requests assisted in dying and this patient’s family who is against it claiming the patient is not in the right state of mind. This situation could get escalate quickly, and who would serve as the mediator?
Thou shall not steal, kill….The most recalled parts of the commandments. I feel it’s not a doctor’s place to steal a patient’s chance of recovering, may it be a miracle, a rare occurrence, or what have you, these things do happen. If a patient was killed they would be robbed of this miracle. The lines between manslaughter and assisted dying, malpractice and he asked for it, can easily be misconstrued by this law.
I feel there can be cases made for both sides of assisted death. While religious people may feel that people should not be given the choice simply because life is a gift, others who are not religious my think that its there body; their choice. I feel that there are acceptable moral reasons of why a person should qualify for assisted killing. The thing that draws the line for me is people that are in despair and they are simply taking a long term decision for a short term problem. If the person is fully aware and understanding of their decisions, then they should be able to make their own choice. A good example is a person who takes a family member off life support; that is assisting death. I think if the person is only buying a short amount of time, and that is not what they want, they should be able to make that choice.
This subject is odd; it seems that the majority of the class is for assisted suicide. I personally do agree with assisted suicide.so it seems if the marjority of our class is for assisted suicide it would be safe to assume that the majority of our population is for assisted suicide, so why isn’t it legal? In the podcast they mentioned Oregon so I assumed they were talking about Oregon State even though he’s from the UK. So I looked up the Oregon state laws on assisted suicide they say that if a person is diagnosed with less than six months to live by two doctors, and then request an assisted suicide it will go to a committee. And if approved, they must request again after fifteen days and then their doctor may prescribe a lethal dose of medication but the patient must administer it themselves. I do not know the laws for other states but this seems to be a step in the right direction. Last week I was listening to Tom Leykis who has had Dr. Kevorkian on his radio show many times in the past. He brought up a good point about how he is for assisted suicide, but many laws and regulations will have to be put into place first. Because say, assisted suicide Is legalized in the united states, it wont be long before some whiny American says he is being discriminated against because he is not eligible for assisted suicide and sues someone. He also states how life insurance companies will lobby this and drop a ridiculous amount of money. So as with many things in US history, one step at a time, and then maybe the American people will have laws they agree with.
Joseph ni
I agree that people have the free will to take there own lives for what ever reason. personally i feel that if you choose suicide then not only have you lost belief in things such as mericles but you've lost faith in humanity as a hole. Tecnology has brought us far from the days when people thought the world was flat. Yesterday has never been the same as today and tomorrow will never be known until you live it. Its our God given free will to choose when death is standing at our door, imbrace it or fight to the last breath.
Matthew S Martinez
People can choose to struggle through life.Or they can choose to end it abruptly,either way yor going to suffer.Everyone should be allowed to live and die,that way we can suffer together.
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